Hi this is some pretty basic questions, for which I apologise in advance (i am a total, total newbie).
I have installed Gemtek WAPS-232 Gateway and it shows up on the TTN no probs.
I am having real issues connecting any devices, the TTN docs although good - sort of leave you hanging on device activation - get device registration and… You will be redirected to the newly registered device where you can find the generated App Key needed to activate the device. OK great err how do I activate the device…?
I have traffic on the gateway but the device address does not match any of my devices (example 26 01 69 FC, matches no number I have anywhere) i am pretty sure nobody else’s nodes are on there.
Applications:- Do all the devices have to be the same? In the overview section it is asking for payload formats but surely each device type has a different payload format ?
I am lost with device addresses. What is the difference between the device address as given on the gateway traffic, the device address given on the TTN device overview page, the DevEUI and the Device Key printed on the device.
I have read up the theory but the practice is rapidly depressing me.
Is there decent tutorial that goes through exactly what all the numbers for starters? I have looked at loads and they all appear to be device/server/dashboard dependent.
Apologies for the basic level of questions.
Hiya Descartes
Location of the offending phrase https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/docs/devices/registration.html
Section 4 and Section 4.
Gateway = TTN Outdoor WANS-232
Devices :-
Netvox R718CK2 Twin Temp
Netvox R718iA2 Potentiometer
Netvox R718E Tilt Sensor
NetOp 2 Plane Tilt Sensor
NetOp Acceloremeter & Gyroscope
Hope this helps.
I have tried the docs and although good there are gaps that as a very basic newbie am struggling with.
Why exactly are you declaring war on the LoRaWan spec?
6.2.2 The AppKey is an AES-128 root key specific to the end-device. 1 Whenever an end-device
joins a network via over-the-air activation, the AppKey is used to derive the session keys
NwkSKey and AppSKey specific for that end-device to encrypt and verify network
communication and application data.
The offending phrase is from older documentation for the v2 console.
When you setup a device you three pieces of information which all appear on the form at the same time - no redirection is required.
But we now have a conundrum - do you learn the about to be deprecated v2 console or go for the new shiny v3 console. I think that you should put the devices on v3 so you only have to learn that once.
Leave your gateway on v2 for now - it will still pickup v3 registered devices and as it’s not broken, no need to fix it at present.
Until Descartes can articulate a specific actual issue, you’re just going to have to assume that he’s mixed up some of the details of LoRaWan in memory: there may be more comprehensive information elsewhere, but there is no actual error in what you linked to.
In reality, the AppKey is the root key for an OTAA device from which session keys are derived at the same time the dynamic device address is assigned. It might be pre-set by the device manufacturer, but if you are registering a device which doesn’t yet have such a root key, generating it may be offered as an option, in which case you’d then have to get that key into the device. Needless to say regardless of who made up the number, the AppKey must match between the stack and the device!
Hi Guys, thanks for this.
I am really confused now though and up the creek without a paddle, this link (https://eu1.cloud.thethings.network/) sends me to a completely different Console than the TTN I installed on (https://console.thethingsnetwork.org/) do I delete my old configuration and start again.
I believe if I delete anything from TTN you can never put it back on again, hence my reticence about deleting and reinstalling.
Hi there thanks.
I understand some of the keys i.e APPkey is the security encryption between server and device(ish) and the AppEUI (JoinEUI) is the destination address of the messages.
What is really confusing me is the addresses/numbers relative to the device:
DeviceKey - printed on the device label (NetOps aphanumeric 32)
DeviceEUI - Unique number of device as given by manufacturer - got that
DeviceAddress as given in gateway traffic. examples (02 01 81 15)(26 01 21 21)(26 01 69 FC) this is the one that confuses me as these numbers match nothing.
I might add I have two registered devices on the TTN Applications the little dots one is green & one is red/pink but nether have been seen.
If you put different devices in one TTN application, surely it would need different payload decoders, yet there only seems to be one opportunity??
God this is hard work…
It’s a multi-layered, multi-faceted system involving RF, embedded micro-electronics, encryption, protocols and Haribo. Right now by going too fast you are confusing yourself - this is like learning to ride a bicycle - you ARE going to wobble at first but if you go with the flow and not try to understand everything all on the first go, it will all come good.
The v2 docs will give you a good grounding on the theory - which EUI / key does what.
Just do ONE device. Don’t worry about different payload decoders, which as it happens is supported in v3 maybe that would be a good one to use.
OTAA is the preferred method of setup, so you will need to enter your Device EUI and if the label on the device has one, the AppEUI and then, if there is one, the AppKey.
If you care to share a picture of the label we may be able to solve some of the muddle.
Hi RemoteDatum, I was glad to see your post, as I had some issues also (Some in past, some outstanding), the responses here seem a little arrogant and unhelpful. For what its worth, here is my take from a layman’s view.
Adding devices is simple once you have done, sort of confusing before that.
DevEUI: 16 digit device identifier. Normally given by manufacturer- can be changed but not recommended. Needs to match between TTN and device. Input it when adding device.
AppEUI: not actually sure what this does, but again it needs to match between Device and TTN. Your device will come with one already, you can either change it, or add one to TTN (much easier) -application/overview/applicationEUI’s/manage EUI’s/add. Then when you add the device, just drop down select the right appEUI. Do this before adding device.
App Key: 32 digit code phrase. basically a code key to connect. Device will come with one, and TTN will generate one. When adding device, you have to either change TTN’s key to the devices key, or change devices key to TTN’s.
All the other stuff is generated from activation.
Hope this helps even a little. Let me know if further questions, I am far from the best person to help, but I can understand where you are at.
A LoRaWAN device can join a network with a DevEUI, JoinEUI (also called AppEUI for older LoRaWAN versions) and AppKey. When it joins the network assigns it a DevAddr (device address) which is shorter and will be used in subsequent communication. This joining method is called OTAA (over the air activation).
There is a second (not adviced) way to join a network, ABP (activation by personalisation) where the vendor assigns the device a DevAddr (device address), NetwSKey (network session key) and AppSKey (application session key). As the vendor does not know which network will be used the assigned address will likely not match TTN address ranges.
There is a class of devices where the vendor does not supply any credentials, or diy devices, in that case you need to generate some of the information in the TTN console (or make it up yourself, for EUIs that is dangerous because the address ranges are sold to vendors so you might accidentally use something assigned to someone else) and program that information into the device.
Some of that might be because we spent 5 years learning this stuff and some new members think it is too much effort to spend an hour trying to understand the basics.
However generally (yes, sadly not all the time) replies do point in the right direction even if they’re hard to understand at that point or being cryptic about why something is being asked.
Thank you for all your assistance and advice.
Looks though it is going to be baby steps.
Trouble is when you hit a wall there is a huge amount of info out there and trying to get to the info relative to your specific problem can be frustrating - especially if you are not that tech/software savvy.
Thanks again
Looks as though it is going to be microscopic steps.
I thought this was going to be the future but sadly it doesn’t look that way, for me anyway.
Anyone want to be any kit going cheap, I have three gateways and 7 sensors - don’t think this IoT route is for me- back to the drawing board…
What’s the specific application problem you are trying to solve? The more detailed you can be, the more meaningful any responses.
LoRaWan is definitely not a fit for everything; there are some real limitations which have to be kept in mind when choosing applications to apply it to.
If the application is a fit, then getting it going is a matter of some perseverance and hopefully some help that stays focused on actual issues.
If the application isn’t a fit, then, it needs some other technology
Having successfully setup the gateway, you have conflated multiple pieces of information with setting up a device which we have been trying to assist you with.
If you can give us an image of a device label, as I asked previously, we can tell you what to type and where and then you will have a device working.
