What Gateway should I use?

Gateways
1

Hey Guys, Sorry I’m new to the LoRaWAN network and I need a little bit help choosing my first device for my gateway.

But my first problem is, that I don’t understand quite well, what is, for example, the difference between TTN and Helium. As far as I understand, both are LoRaWAN Networks.

Well, let’s say it this way: One of my goals is to use LoRaWAN Devices myself. Devices like Sensors, GPS-Trackers and Shields for Arduino. My second goal is providing a network, other people can use. I live in a holiday destination, so here are many tourists with dogs. And I want that their LoRaWAN GPS Collars are working here.

Now, when I’m looking on to the coverage Map of TTN and Helium, the area where I live is “empty”. On the Helium Network there is just a blank spot here, and on the TTN Map there are just two Gateways in the whole City.

But now the honest question is: If I buy, for example, a new GPS Tracker, why should I connect it to the TTN Network, instead of the Helium Network, that has greater coverage?

Somehow I have a feeling, that it would be much better to just use a gateway, that supports both networks in parallel (on the same antenna), TTN and Helium and maybe other. Well, I don’t give a *** about Mining and so on. I’m just interested in the LoRaWAN Coverage.

So can some one tell me, what kind of gateway I can use?

Thx!

2

i can share only my personal experiences : never take Helium- this network is having a huge problem and soon there will be more than only a major issue happen to them .A lot of loud voices on all social media channels call it an overpriced hardware selling scam and i tend to confirm this …
For your plan, i would recommend TTN and as gateway it depends , how much knowledge you have, I did convert a Sensecap M1 Helium miner into a perfectly working TTN gateway - because the base is a very useful Raspi Pi 4. Or you buy something ready to use - if i wouldnt have done the conversion, my first choice would have been this product :MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products: wAP LR8 kit

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3

Thank you for sharing your experience.

But the problem is, here you have two screenshots about the coverage of Helium an TTN.
Bildschirmfoto 2023-03-29 um 11.02.45

Bildschirmfoto 2023-03-29 um 11.06.31
Bildschirmfoto 2023-03-29 um 11.06.311181×792 117 KB

As you can see, there is almost no coverage in my region with TTN. So bitter it sounds, but how can I use a GPS-Tracker on TTN when there is no coverage?

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4

:slight_smile: TTN is a Community Network - YOU are the community! Do what many of the rest of us have done and get a (cheap? - No Mining overhead or Premium addon charges, no provisioning costs, no cost of operation etc.) Gateway and deploy…or two or three or…:slight_smile:

Collaborate with your countrymen:
https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/country/bulgaria/
and perhaps join up with the community in:
https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/community/varna/
helping extend its northern fringe?

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5

Because TTN has actual devices being used and doesn’t charge for them to be on the network. Whereas Helium has a pile of gateways desperately trying to “mine” for HNT and listen out for devices that are charged for the uplink.

One major technical issue, you can’t share an antenna - if one gateway transmits, the other will be fried.

As with all these ‘where do I start’ questions, the short answer is read the Learn resources (top of page), buy a TTIG and a couple of cheap off the shelf done-for-you devices, get them running and await the influx of dogs wearing tracker collars.

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6

The coverage map from Helium is a pure lie - they dont clean it up and you see all , ever onboarded hotspots - and a lot of them are not active anymore or banned. Todays online ratio has dropped to 43,27%
Just look at this picture - 4 miners announced - non of them is online anymore - since weeks /months or years. And consider, that actually 16% of all hotspots are banned and its announced, that another 30000
will go to this list (what is roughly +4 % )

image
image1370×372 94 KB

Check your location in detail - then it might look very different

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7

Your. map screen shot says. where the gateways are, it says nothing about the coverage which, if they are high up, could be for a few km.

We don’t do live/active tracking on TTN, it would take up too much of the resources, that is breach the Fair Use Policy, and if your device enters a blind spot, you won’t know where it is. LoRaWAN is great for tracking a pallet from one depot to another (both of which would have coverage), but not the actual truck itself.

8

Addon: this is the map with the Helium miner locations, like its provided from Hotspotty - each red dot marks an offline hotspot

image
image1157×804 138 KB

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9

Yeah, but there are a lot of Trackers, that are using LoRaWAN, here are two examples: This one is using Helium: Petfon GPS Tracker for Helium Network — COTX Networks Store

And another is using “WPLAN LoRa & SigFox (868mHz/915mHz)”: Invoxia Pet-Tracker - Aktivitätsverfolgung und GPS-Ortung für Tiere

10

Yes there are lots of trackers and many use LoRaWAN, tracking ‘can’ be done on TTN - you just have to be aware of the FUP limits - if you can live with (in extremis on SF12) maybe 1 update per hour then you are probably ok, but many assume they will get mobile phone like ‘live coverage’ (and with cell tower and other Augmentation vs raw GPS) which is not what LoRaWAN is about and given FUP limits per device which TTN is even further from. Disclaimer - I use trackers almost every day - I typically have 2-7 trackers with me in vehicles as I drive around so I can track journey and map community coverage - the idea being no one tracker breaches FUP over the day and some run on various SF’s so I can build a coverage picture in each area and around the country…

As Nick point out no GW coverage = no track so allow for that (and deploy more GW’s as above!!!) If you want to know roughly when you arrive/depart locations (assuming coverage in the area) and a route approximation then great just dont expect meter by meter mapping :wink:

11

Woo hoo, I love a “yeah but” …

The existence of something (like politicians and chocolate fireguards) does not make them useful. Particularly if there are technical considerations that the marketing dept of the vendor don’t care about.

As I said, live tracking on TTN isn’t achievable. Where’s my thing tracking is potentially possible as long as it’s in range of a gateway.

And how well does a pet collar tracker work when it’s 10cm from the ground with a sack of water between it & the gateway.

As any good Doctor knows, if you ask for advice, you may not hear what you want to hear.

12

Ok… But on the other hand… Why should I even care about the FUP? When I can just say:

artworks-000043177088-tg1mig-t500x500

As far, as I can see, I can just buy commercial Service: Helium IoT European router service

The link is for a commercial Service on the Helium Network and I pay for a message 0,00005 USD. Let’s assume, I send every 30 seconds a message, this is 2880 Messages a day => 14ct.

13

Yes and your battery life? How many messages?

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14

The most important thing on here is the FUP.

Oh, and not using a SCPF

Amongst the many things we feel are important are the FUP, not using SCPF and trying to justify the use of Helium, the new kid on the block.

Most people here are deploying LoRaWAN on a serious basis for community or commercial uses. It is a complicated many layered system that works very well if you’ve learnt the foundational information.

If I pay for a TTI instance, I too can send messages every 30 seconds if I wish because I’m paying for the service.

You’ve reached the point now where you need to put your money where your mouth is and go and experience LoRaWAN rather than try to tell us why Helium is better for you.

I say this as someone that has two gateways on this desk, one on TTN and one of Helium. So I have actually put my money where my mouth is and I know what reality is.

Please note, this is the TTN forum funded by TTI, so random discussions without facts or merit on other platforms aren’t appropriate.

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15

Because you cant!

Most Trackers have a typically 21-27Byte Payload (plus overhead + possibly other sensor data) which means that with SF12 you are still constrained by legal limits - assuming 1% duty cycle - which sugggests 1 Tx every ~3 mins max to maybe 1 per 3.5mins - not per 30sec and NOT live tracking :slight_smile:
Of course the shut up and take my money might be you paying the judge for your fines to avaoid a jail cell! :rofl:

Remember always:- just because you ‘can’ does not mean you ‘should’! If everyone used full duty cycle on every node the airwaves would be very congested (and lots of batteries would get very flat very quickly!) rather think in terms of decimating use and go for 0.1% as a responsible user of a scarce shared resource the RF spectrum…

If in doubt check out:
https://avbentem.github.io/airtime-calculator/ttn/eu868/27

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Because if you breach it you are not welcome in this community. If Helium has different requirements that suite your needs better feel free to go there.
However keep the legal and physical limits in mind. Legal as in you are not allowed to hog the frequencies (which a badly configured tracker can do) and physical as in how large a battery do you need for frequent transmissions.

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17

Hi @thedr

My experience as a low-technical user of LoRaWAN

I use TheThingsNetwork. If you go commercial, you can migrate to TTI. The forum of TTN is very good and lot’s of people are helping each other.

For gateways I use the RAK Wireless gateways. Why? an low-technical user the web-gui is perfect. All you need is there. AND: the WisDM you can manage them remotely. First 2 are free, more gateways: see pricing
image

And my opinion on Helium…
Users on TTN choose TTN based on LoRaWAN
Users on Helium choose Helium based on money… And if the currency stops… Helium stops… end of story

For GPS you can use Lorawan, however: no Lora coverage, no GPS. Keep that in mind.

good luck

Marc

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18

Interesting points. I’ve been beating myself up trying to figure out helium or ttn. Almost hit the buy button on a helium hotspot, but it seems pointless in 2024, and the fees charged by Helium for things like an OUI seem against the whole idea of lorawan as “the people’s network”. It really seems like a big Ponzi scheme where people in it seem to think they will make money from it - the only people making money are the OEMs and the guys running Helium itself.
Having said that, I might still buy a Rak hotspot as I have seen a good deal for it, provided I can easily switch it over to TTN or chirpstack. I’m still new to all this, and lorawan still seems like a confusing mess IMO.

19

Why not just ask what gateway to buy - the reason LW seems a confusing mess is because you can’t learn it all by reading, you have to do some and then you will find out that it is exactly like Shrek, it has layers, because it’s not an appliance, it’s an eco-system that can be applied at a simplistic level but even then that requires a certain amount of diligence and blind faith in the instructions.

So in the first instance read the Learn section (lined top of page). Then read it again. Watch the video in SMALL chunks. That will cover the core material. Then come back and tell us what you want to do with LW so we can point you towards the best things to buy.