Lorawan is very interesting and could have great applications here in Brazil. But unfortunately for us Brazilians it is not a low-cost chain. For example, this TTIG gateway, which for makers in first world countries is a bargain here in Brazil, represents 50% of the minimum wage. The technology was launched almost 6 years ago, but so far nothing at low cost.
The value of the sx1308 chip is USD $ 31.00 !!! Damn it!!! This should be the maximum value for the entire gateway. Only a single chip costs 17% of the minimum wage of a Brazilian !!!
Another point is, why only semtech has the know-how to manufacture lora modulation chips? It smells like a “low cost” monopoly.
Anyway, disappointed with Lorawan technology, I am afraid to be studying something that does not go forward in emerging countries… It may be that it is operated here by concessionaires that will charge absurd connection fees, as it has always been…
If they take too long to lower the price, another really low-priced technology will arrive and lorawan may fall by the wayside.
If you don’t agree with what I said here, I ask you to prove me the opposite. I will be very happy to be wrong and maybe I will not be spreading gateways of USD10.00 all over Brazil.
Lorawan é muito interessante e poderia ter grande aplicações aqui no Brasil. Mas infelizmente para nós brasileiros ela não é uma rede de baixo custo. Por exemplo, esse gateway TTIG, que para makers de países de primeiro mundo é uma pechincha aqui no Brasil representa 50% de um salário mínimo. Já tem quase 6 anos que a tecnologia foi lançada mas até agora nada de custo baixo.
O valor do chip sx1308 é USD$31,00 !!! Caramba!!! Isso deveria ser o valor máximo do gateway inteiro. Só um único chip custa 17% do salário mínimo de um brasileiro!!!
Outro ponto é, porque somente a semtech tem o know how para fabricar chips de modulação lora? Isso me cheira monopólio fantasiado de “baixo custo”.
Enfim, decepcionado com a tecnologia Lorawan, estou com medo de estar estudando uma coisa que não vai para frente nos países emergentes… Pode ser que aqui seja operado por concessionarias que cobrarão valores absurdos de conexão, assim como sempre foi…
Se demorarem muito para abaixar o preço, vai chegar outra tecnologia realmente com preço baixo e lorawan poderá cair no esquecimento.
Se não concordam com o que eu disse aqui, peço que me provem o contrário. Ficarei muito feliz em estar errado e quem sabe não estarei espalhando gateways de USD10,00 por todo o Brasil.
Hi @renatoreis Welcome to the TTN Forum. As a quick read of various posts will show the official language for the TTN Forum is English, please repost or if needed do a dual language post so all can be informed and potentially assist if you have a problem. If in doubt Google Translate is at least a starting point and a potential friend
I believe I understand your point. I also live in a country with very low minimum wage.
However, if you compare the cost of a LoRaWAN Gateway to the cost of 4G gateway, you will see the huge difference.
I truly believe nothing cheap is worth at the end. Most gateways in EU cost €200-€400-(outdoor)€600.
And that’s fine. At the end of the day, the profit for the corporation that built the technology should come from somewhere.
First & foremost I’m afraid I have to highlight that one of the biggest cost drivers for product in Brazil…is Brazil itself. It is well known commercially as a ‘challenging’ country to do business in with excessive import duties, regulations and other (some might say) protectionist trade mechanisms! The solution is in your and your country(wo)mens hands - its called the ballot box!
Would be interested in hearing your silicon cost analysis skills and understanding your abiity to determine the ‘correct’ cost for such GW silicon (remember the system is Very assymetric - potentially Mu/Bnu of nodes supported by deployment of 10’s/100’sKu/Mu of GW silicon - the abilty to recover development cost is very one sided). Also c/w node Si (which sells for <<$3 in volume) the GW devices are approx equivalent to 48x node LoRa demodulators + LoRa Tx + (g)FSK transceiver + decent on board processor/logic engine, plus significant on chip memory (not least to support Demod DSP fn’s, along with bigger/more complex package/interfaces, internal non-blocking signal routing and prioritisation logic and on chip comms, etc.
Semtech recognises the need to get cost down hence initiatives such as the introduction of the SX1308 as a reduced spec/reduced temp version of the (more expensive) SX1301 for such internal/benign deployment environments as supported by the TTIG and similar products, plus we are now seeng the introduction and roll-out of more advanced platforms based on the SX1302
FYI Semtech has, in recent years, licenced the LoRa technology to other vendors, some have adopted a SIP approach others, e.g. STM, have taken Si dev approach…it does take years however for devices to go through the development, prototyping/evaluation/cert process before they finally come to market. Semtech cant ‘force’ other vendors to introduce products only encourage and enable (through licencing).
To answer the question of why they have the knowledge - they had the courage and the vision to dip their hands in their pockets in March 2012 and buy the developing company (Cycleo)…others could have done it, Semtech stepped up - so please don’t ‘knock’ them for having such foresight and conviction…
I’m sure I echo most Forumites sentiments when I say we all look forward to the days when LoRa solutions are much more widely deployed and much cheaper than they are today…and I would encourage you to do your own bit locally by acquiring and deploying GW’s where ever possible
I have a special device that is just for you and other Brazilian towns & cities.
It cures all illnesses with one touch and dispenses free beer afterwards.
It costs $1,000,000 for each town to have one, but it does cure all illnesses and did I mention the free beer.
Even here in the UK I get asked about technology projects by charitable concerns that are too expensive for them to do even if I gave my time for free. But sometimes the return on investment is so great that they find a way.
With respect, you are looking at LoRaWAN the wrong way round - what could you build that could do something so great, your communities would be happy to find a way?
Think about this seriously, there is a lot of expertise here that could help you find something that could transform the lives of people in your communities.
Fail fast - don’t find the ideal solution, just find something that makes sense that could provide a benefit - once you get started, try things out, make mistakes, have successes, deliver, ideas & opportunities will make themselves known.
So there are quite a few remote communities in Brazil I would imagine. I was having a look for an idea and came across this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDMfNumLDOs
Basically its about setting up and deploying LoRaWAN to remote communities to allow flow of information regarding combating COVID-19. Around 10 minutes on is about LoRaWAN.
The only other thing I could think of is there is always the appetite for data that people will pay for if they are interested. Possibility to combine both.
I really thing that LoRa will rapidly spread in South America. Our team is developing LoRa gateways here in Brazil. There is a lot of companies who will love the capability and performance of a LoRaWAN applications. Don’t be afraid, costs will reduce in a few years.
I can empathize your helpless feeling in such situation, where it is almost hopeless to compete with other countries having say 10 times higher salaries.
The pressure on costs means globally we experience a race to the bottom - there may be some small artificial price inflation that impacts other countries, but please please be assured that technologies in this arena are generally as low as economically viable.
As I said before, there is a lot of expertise - find problems you think could be solved and talk about solutions here - this is the TTN community after all - it’s not about costs, it’s about return - on investment or benefits to the users.
We receive regular demands for our LoRaWAN valves from Brazil. Last chap was asking for a product at 10$…not even the price of a battery ! Doing business in Brazil is a showstopper for us…
